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| Obaji |
I don’t believe in individual ownership of varsities
–Prof Obaji
Professor
Chinwe Obaji served as minister of education in the Obasanjo administration
between 2005 and 2006. In this interview with UJI ABDULLAHI ILIYASU and AYONI AGBABIAKA,
she talks about issues in education sector and her experience as a student
caught in the Nigerian civil war.
Chinwe Obaji served as minister of education in the Obasanjo administration
between 2005 and 2006. In this interview with UJI ABDULLAHI ILIYASU and AYONI AGBABIAKA,
she talks about issues in education sector and her experience as a student
caught in the Nigerian civil war.
Education under Buhari
To
start with, I am not happy the school feeding is not domiciled in the Federal
Ministry of Education (FME). Unless the
school feeding is school-based and community-driven, it would not succeed. It
could be done as far as education is on the concurrent list.
JAMB
performed well in the last four years and I give them credit, but I am not
happy FME is licensing too many universities. TETFund earned my pass mark, but
it is best if a large chunk of its money is dedicated to research instead of
projects here and there in tertiary schools. For UBEC, most states cannot
assess their fund because they cannot pay their counterpart funds.
performed well in the last four years and I give them credit, but I am not
happy FME is licensing too many universities. TETFund earned my pass mark, but
it is best if a large chunk of its money is dedicated to research instead of
projects here and there in tertiary schools. For UBEC, most states cannot
assess their fund because they cannot pay their counterpart funds.
Unity
schools need to get more attention. Yu know sometimes in the past, they wanted
to designate unity schools only for senior secondary students. It was a wrong policy which started after I
left. Though it has been reversed during President Umaru Musa Yar’Adua, but we
have not been able to return the schools to their former enviable status since
then. Most of the unity schools are over
populated without commensurate facilities.
There is also the crisis between old students and parents teachers
association (PTA) because government has not been doing enough for them.
schools need to get more attention. Yu know sometimes in the past, they wanted
to designate unity schools only for senior secondary students. It was a wrong policy which started after I
left. Though it has been reversed during President Umaru Musa Yar’Adua, but we
have not been able to return the schools to their former enviable status since
then. Most of the unity schools are over
populated without commensurate facilities.
There is also the crisis between old students and parents teachers
association (PTA) because government has not been doing enough for them.
Proliferation of universities
We
don’t need new universities. Do we have teachers in the old ones? In 2005, we
had 75 universities with 60 per cent of total number of lecturers needed. You
can make a president or senator out of a person overnight, you can make a
businessman or woman out of a person over night, but you cannot make lecturers
overnight. Today we have more than doubled the number. Where are the lecturers
coming? Each time there is a change of government, you are losing from the pool,
that is every four years. Lecturers in most new universities are part-time
staff and are not committed. University
is about globalisation. In the past, NNN,
ABU, UI, OAU, and UniLag were formally
globally recognised because they had both foreign students and lecturers. Now most universities in the country are
local schools. Even in the private
universities, some of their vice chancellors and heads of department are part
time staff. So what are they doing? I graduated in 1975 from UNN. About three
years ago, when I visited the school, there was no additional staff quarters
added to the old ones since then. Even
lecturers will shun appointment at UNN because of lack of accommodation. Only
ABTI has foreign lecturers. In Europe,
we can have 150000- 650000 students in a university. We can expand our premier universities to
accommodate more students. ABU has expanse of land for expansion. But I take
exception of University of Maiduguri because the last state governor has
provided staff quarters and accommodation facilities there.
don’t need new universities. Do we have teachers in the old ones? In 2005, we
had 75 universities with 60 per cent of total number of lecturers needed. You
can make a president or senator out of a person overnight, you can make a
businessman or woman out of a person over night, but you cannot make lecturers
overnight. Today we have more than doubled the number. Where are the lecturers
coming? Each time there is a change of government, you are losing from the pool,
that is every four years. Lecturers in most new universities are part-time
staff and are not committed. University
is about globalisation. In the past, NNN,
ABU, UI, OAU, and UniLag were formally
globally recognised because they had both foreign students and lecturers. Now most universities in the country are
local schools. Even in the private
universities, some of their vice chancellors and heads of department are part
time staff. So what are they doing? I graduated in 1975 from UNN. About three
years ago, when I visited the school, there was no additional staff quarters
added to the old ones since then. Even
lecturers will shun appointment at UNN because of lack of accommodation. Only
ABTI has foreign lecturers. In Europe,
we can have 150000- 650000 students in a university. We can expand our premier universities to
accommodate more students. ABU has expanse of land for expansion. But I take
exception of University of Maiduguri because the last state governor has
provided staff quarters and accommodation facilities there.
Where
are the students for new universities when the schools are profit-oriented?
They charge between N500000 and N1000000. Can they break even without students?
Most of them started with 500 students but they must have all the lecturers
whom they pay.
are the students for new universities when the schools are profit-oriented?
They charge between N500000 and N1000000. Can they break even without students?
Most of them started with 500 students but they must have all the lecturers
whom they pay.
University
entails universal. Nigerian universities are not among the 1000 in the world
because they are not global. Like Harvard, quotas are reserved for foreign
students.
entails universal. Nigerian universities are not among the 1000 in the world
because they are not global. Like Harvard, quotas are reserved for foreign
students.
University/polytechnic dichotomy
I
am so happy that the dichotomy has been abolished. In 2006, I got the National Assembly to meet
with Obasanjo to abolish the dichotomy. There was dichotomy in the retirement
age of lecturers, pension and gratuity. Polytechnic is good for Nigeria for
technology transfer. University is more of theoretical than practical. During
my time, some people wanted to even abolish colleges of education and
polytechnics. I wept for the more
emphasis people placed on university.
am so happy that the dichotomy has been abolished. In 2006, I got the National Assembly to meet
with Obasanjo to abolish the dichotomy. There was dichotomy in the retirement
age of lecturers, pension and gratuity. Polytechnic is good for Nigeria for
technology transfer. University is more of theoretical than practical. During
my time, some people wanted to even abolish colleges of education and
polytechnics. I wept for the more
emphasis people placed on university.
In
UK, all polytechnics were turned to universities, but we must remember how many
years it took UK to get to that level. Do they take light in UK? Do you have the type of lecturers and
facilities in UK schools? We don’t have the quality of lecturers they have. Let
us not just copy blindly. Will degree holders like to teach in primary school?
Where will you get the lecturers? Even in primary schools, we don’t have
qualified teachers. By 2005, we lacked primary school teachers that were why I
instituted the Federal Teachers Corps. Remember when NYSC started in 1973, even graduates of colleges of education were
mobilised. Gradually they were phased
out. Then many people lost interest in
colleges of education because it was no longer a higher institution. We
mobilised graduates of colleges of education and trained them for two years and
sent them to primary schools in states of their choice. We paid them N5000 higher than NYSC allowance.
At the end of the training, they would go to primary school to teach. But I am glad that the Buhari administration
said by December this year, only qualified teachers will be allowed to teach in
primary and secondary schools. You
cannot be surprised that Malam Nasiru el-Rufai sacked unqualified teachers in
Kaduna and replaced them with qualified ones amid criticisms. In order to get
enough teachers, we must go back to the Federal Teachers Corps. Some primary
school teachers did not even attend secondary schools. They are not even
educated. But there are lots of qualified teachers who are not given
appointment because they are not connected.
UK, all polytechnics were turned to universities, but we must remember how many
years it took UK to get to that level. Do they take light in UK? Do you have the type of lecturers and
facilities in UK schools? We don’t have the quality of lecturers they have. Let
us not just copy blindly. Will degree holders like to teach in primary school?
Where will you get the lecturers? Even in primary schools, we don’t have
qualified teachers. By 2005, we lacked primary school teachers that were why I
instituted the Federal Teachers Corps. Remember when NYSC started in 1973, even graduates of colleges of education were
mobilised. Gradually they were phased
out. Then many people lost interest in
colleges of education because it was no longer a higher institution. We
mobilised graduates of colleges of education and trained them for two years and
sent them to primary schools in states of their choice. We paid them N5000 higher than NYSC allowance.
At the end of the training, they would go to primary school to teach. But I am glad that the Buhari administration
said by December this year, only qualified teachers will be allowed to teach in
primary and secondary schools. You
cannot be surprised that Malam Nasiru el-Rufai sacked unqualified teachers in
Kaduna and replaced them with qualified ones amid criticisms. In order to get
enough teachers, we must go back to the Federal Teachers Corps. Some primary
school teachers did not even attend secondary schools. They are not even
educated. But there are lots of qualified teachers who are not given
appointment because they are not connected.
Almajiri education
I
never believe in almajiri education as many people in the north do. Integration
into the mainstream is the answer. If you are in school where everybody is like
you, there is nobody to look forward, so no challenge. Most of the violent
crimes are committed by the new generation not the older one. If they are
properly educated, they won’t engage in crime.
Today young people are on social media 24 hours wasting their energy and
disseminating fake news instead of contributing to national development. For
me, I can be online 24 hours because I am a retiree.
never believe in almajiri education as many people in the north do. Integration
into the mainstream is the answer. If you are in school where everybody is like
you, there is nobody to look forward, so no challenge. Most of the violent
crimes are committed by the new generation not the older one. If they are
properly educated, they won’t engage in crime.
Today young people are on social media 24 hours wasting their energy and
disseminating fake news instead of contributing to national development. For
me, I can be online 24 hours because I am a retiree.
Over dependence on certificate
During
interviews, panels do not only look for certificate knowledge. My experience some years ago when we
interviewed candidates for a job in Abuja for a multinational company showed
that most of the first class graduates did not pass. Most of the successful candidates were second
class holders. In an ideal situation
when you are hiring people for a job, you don’t have to look for a class of
degree, but what applicants can practically offer. We should do more on
job-training because a lot is wrong with our curriculum. Our country sometimes
copies wrongly. I always advocated for
technical education. During our time, the primary school was eight years, from
standard one up to six. Most cabinet makers we had at the time were people who
stopped at standard six. The fashion designers and clerks did not go to primary
school. When we started the 6-3-3-4, it is meant that people drop off will have
acquired enough skills. Today, nobody drop off after JSS Three. Everybody
continue schooling. This is when certificate craze began. They believe that
there is room at the top. Unlike other countries, there are jobs for certain
people. If you are 18 years from high school, you can go to work in the
factory. These people end up becoming managers in their workplaces. You cannot
go and bring in someone outside to boss them. English and Mathematics as compulsory subjects
interviews, panels do not only look for certificate knowledge. My experience some years ago when we
interviewed candidates for a job in Abuja for a multinational company showed
that most of the first class graduates did not pass. Most of the successful candidates were second
class holders. In an ideal situation
when you are hiring people for a job, you don’t have to look for a class of
degree, but what applicants can practically offer. We should do more on
job-training because a lot is wrong with our curriculum. Our country sometimes
copies wrongly. I always advocated for
technical education. During our time, the primary school was eight years, from
standard one up to six. Most cabinet makers we had at the time were people who
stopped at standard six. The fashion designers and clerks did not go to primary
school. When we started the 6-3-3-4, it is meant that people drop off will have
acquired enough skills. Today, nobody drop off after JSS Three. Everybody
continue schooling. This is when certificate craze began. They believe that
there is room at the top. Unlike other countries, there are jobs for certain
people. If you are 18 years from high school, you can go to work in the
factory. These people end up becoming managers in their workplaces. You cannot
go and bring in someone outside to boss them. English and Mathematics as compulsory subjects
In the past, we had more subjects. We did
almost every course. How can you communicate if English is not made compulsory?
French should also be made compulsory. How can you go to the moon if you don’t
know Mathematics? At present, a person will ask for a calculator if you buy N10
items at N100. What type of education is that when you cannot use your brain to
know that 100 times 10 equals 1000? During my father’s time, they even did more
subjects than us. How can you communicate without English?
almost every course. How can you communicate if English is not made compulsory?
French should also be made compulsory. How can you go to the moon if you don’t
know Mathematics? At present, a person will ask for a calculator if you buy N10
items at N100. What type of education is that when you cannot use your brain to
know that 100 times 10 equals 1000? During my father’s time, they even did more
subjects than us. How can you communicate without English?
UTME cut-off marks
You
know I instituted the post-University Matriculation Examination (post-UME)
screening in 2005 because there was no correlation between JAMB score and
students’ actual performances; these means
that high JAMB scores were not necessarily the efforts of the candidates who got
them. We instituted the post-JAMB screening because
by then there were miracle centres where other people wrote exam for
candidates. In the post-JAMB screening,
we found out that most high scorers could not pass the test, so did not get
admission that year. The cut-off mark in
2005 was 180. Most universities did not
get the required number of students to fill their admission slots. So the mark
was reduced to 160. At the end, the universities discovered that those students
who scored 160 performed better in their courses than those with 180. The post-UTME test was instituted 13 years
ago. I am happy that it is not JAMB that admits students, but
universities. Since 2016, JAMB introduced
the computer based test (CBT), but I must tell you that some of the candidates have
contact with computers for the first time. That means JAMB is testing proficiency
in computer but not the knowledge of the course the students want to study. In
Nigeria, people criticise for the sake of criticism and nothing else. In this
country, some people are inclined to find fault with government’s policies and
programmes no matter how benevolent they are.
Now the mark has been reduced to 160. You will find out that those who
scored 160 perform better in their courses in the universities than those who
scored 200 and above.
know I instituted the post-University Matriculation Examination (post-UME)
screening in 2005 because there was no correlation between JAMB score and
students’ actual performances; these means
that high JAMB scores were not necessarily the efforts of the candidates who got
them. We instituted the post-JAMB screening because
by then there were miracle centres where other people wrote exam for
candidates. In the post-JAMB screening,
we found out that most high scorers could not pass the test, so did not get
admission that year. The cut-off mark in
2005 was 180. Most universities did not
get the required number of students to fill their admission slots. So the mark
was reduced to 160. At the end, the universities discovered that those students
who scored 160 performed better in their courses than those with 180. The post-UTME test was instituted 13 years
ago. I am happy that it is not JAMB that admits students, but
universities. Since 2016, JAMB introduced
the computer based test (CBT), but I must tell you that some of the candidates have
contact with computers for the first time. That means JAMB is testing proficiency
in computer but not the knowledge of the course the students want to study. In
Nigeria, people criticise for the sake of criticism and nothing else. In this
country, some people are inclined to find fault with government’s policies and
programmes no matter how benevolent they are.
Now the mark has been reduced to 160. You will find out that those who
scored 160 perform better in their courses in the universities than those who
scored 200 and above.
The
UTME is based on objective test and so many candidates just guess the answers
or select answers randomly and get them. Lower JAMB score cannot reduce the standard of
education because Jamb score only gives you permission to attend post-UTME
test, and if you fail you are will not be admitted. If students in a university
perform poorly, it is the university that will be blamed not JAMB. For example,
a student who scored more than 300 and wanted to go to Nnamdi Azikiwe
University, Awka, was asked to write short notes on Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe, but
couldn’t write anything. He did not know who Nnamdi Azikiwe was; he did
not know whether he was a man or woman; he did not know whether he was dead or
alive. He could not even spell ‘Nnamdi Azikiwe’. But the student was Igbo. He scored 300 in JAMB. Similarly a student
who wants to go to Obafemi Awolowo University or Ahmadu Bello University may
not be able to spell the names of the universities.
UTME is based on objective test and so many candidates just guess the answers
or select answers randomly and get them. Lower JAMB score cannot reduce the standard of
education because Jamb score only gives you permission to attend post-UTME
test, and if you fail you are will not be admitted. If students in a university
perform poorly, it is the university that will be blamed not JAMB. For example,
a student who scored more than 300 and wanted to go to Nnamdi Azikiwe
University, Awka, was asked to write short notes on Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe, but
couldn’t write anything. He did not know who Nnamdi Azikiwe was; he did
not know whether he was a man or woman; he did not know whether he was dead or
alive. He could not even spell ‘Nnamdi Azikiwe’. But the student was Igbo. He scored 300 in JAMB. Similarly a student
who wants to go to Obafemi Awolowo University or Ahmadu Bello University may
not be able to spell the names of the universities.
Standard and quality of education
There
is a difference between standard and quality. Nigeria’s standard of education
is not falling because we have more universities and courses in the
universities today than before. The only
thing that is falling is the quality, and it will continue to fall because the
basics are not there. Today how many
students who sit for SSCE will obtain five credits, including English and
Mathematics, at one sitting? We can
reduce the number of candidates who sit for UTME every year if we allow only those
who have written their SSCE to sit for UTME. Even in JAMB Act, there is not
provision for awaiting result. Awaiting result
candidates are not qualified to write JAMB in the first instance. Parents do not even want their children to
stay long at home after SSCE. We can
write UTME in August or September. After
that the children can go for their post-UTME test.
is a difference between standard and quality. Nigeria’s standard of education
is not falling because we have more universities and courses in the
universities today than before. The only
thing that is falling is the quality, and it will continue to fall because the
basics are not there. Today how many
students who sit for SSCE will obtain five credits, including English and
Mathematics, at one sitting? We can
reduce the number of candidates who sit for UTME every year if we allow only those
who have written their SSCE to sit for UTME. Even in JAMB Act, there is not
provision for awaiting result. Awaiting result
candidates are not qualified to write JAMB in the first instance. Parents do not even want their children to
stay long at home after SSCE. We can
write UTME in August or September. After
that the children can go for their post-UTME test.
Many
students are no longer serious. In the
past classes were not jumped by pupils and results were sent to parents but now even in unity schools, students are asked to
download their results online. But the parents pay the school fees.
students are no longer serious. In the
past classes were not jumped by pupils and results were sent to parents but now even in unity schools, students are asked to
download their results online. But the parents pay the school fees.
Civil war experience
I
was a student at Queen’s College, Lagos, but because of the 1967 crisis, we left
Lagos and could not go back. I still remember
vividly the journey from Lagos to the East for the last time then. Most of us (Igbo)
who were schooling in Lagos remained in the East. In July 1967 all schools in the old Eastern Region
were closed. We began to move from one
place to another. If your place fell to the federal troops, you became a
refugee in another place. I was living
in Umuaha, so when Umuaha fell, I had to go to my village. We were at home doing nothing. Some of us worked with the Red Cross looking
after the kwashiorkor children. We made
dry pap for Biafran children using corn meal and cocoyam flakes. The boys went to war. But the girls who didn’t go were in the choir singing and hoping that one day the
war would come to an end. In 1969 when the war was abating the then government
felt that those of us who were not in the front should go back to school. Many girls continued with the Red Cross work. Many of them, in my own area, who continued
to take care of kwashiorkor children ended in Gabon with them. At the end of
the war, they continued to London. Not too
long ago, one of them retired as a General in US Army. Those of them who did not have flair for
nursing, went back to school. In
September 1969, my place fell to the federal troops. After Umuahia, my place Umbaise fell on January
8. My principal came after me and my
parents released me to go and write Biafran School Certificate. We were writing examination and we didn’t
know that the federal troops had surrounded us.
Some of the girls were killed instantly.
I was asked to say my last prayer. My last prayer that day was: ‘Oh God,
let thy will be done’. A magazine was
emptied on me but I survived with only seven bullet wounds.
was a student at Queen’s College, Lagos, but because of the 1967 crisis, we left
Lagos and could not go back. I still remember
vividly the journey from Lagos to the East for the last time then. Most of us (Igbo)
who were schooling in Lagos remained in the East. In July 1967 all schools in the old Eastern Region
were closed. We began to move from one
place to another. If your place fell to the federal troops, you became a
refugee in another place. I was living
in Umuaha, so when Umuaha fell, I had to go to my village. We were at home doing nothing. Some of us worked with the Red Cross looking
after the kwashiorkor children. We made
dry pap for Biafran children using corn meal and cocoyam flakes. The boys went to war. But the girls who didn’t go were in the choir singing and hoping that one day the
war would come to an end. In 1969 when the war was abating the then government
felt that those of us who were not in the front should go back to school. Many girls continued with the Red Cross work. Many of them, in my own area, who continued
to take care of kwashiorkor children ended in Gabon with them. At the end of
the war, they continued to London. Not too
long ago, one of them retired as a General in US Army. Those of them who did not have flair for
nursing, went back to school. In
September 1969, my place fell to the federal troops. After Umuahia, my place Umbaise fell on January
8. My principal came after me and my
parents released me to go and write Biafran School Certificate. We were writing examination and we didn’t
know that the federal troops had surrounded us.
Some of the girls were killed instantly.
I was asked to say my last prayer. My last prayer that day was: ‘Oh God,
let thy will be done’. A magazine was
emptied on me but I survived with only seven bullet wounds.
I
am a miracle child because under Obasanjo as commander of Marine Commando, I
nearly lost my life, but 35 years after, under his government, I became the
first female minister of education.
am a miracle child because under Obasanjo as commander of Marine Commando, I
nearly lost my life, but 35 years after, under his government, I became the
first female minister of education.